Moose Jaw - With the steady fall of snow recently, city crews are having trouble clearing all streets before more snow accumulates.
City Engineer Ryan Johnson said part of the problem is due to the snow removal policy dictating that whenever there is a substantial snowfall, crews must attend to priority one and two streets first.
However, it takes about seven days to plow all snow from required locations following a storm, so if it snows more than once in a week, some areas won't get plowed (because crews must return to priority one streets) and the snow can accumulate.
During Monday's council meeting, Coun. Dawn Luhning tried to give crews a chance to clear out all the built up snow when she requested council permit plowing of priority one, two and three streets immediately, due to the recent significant accumulation of snowfall.
Luhning had requested the two-week notice period be waived on that motion so it could be approved Monday, but only Coun. Brian Swanson voted with her on that request, so it was defeated and will have to come before council again on Jan. 26.
Disappointed her colleagues wouldn't support the motion, Luhning said many residents have expressed concerns to her regarding the recent snowfalls. Although she believes city crews are doing their best to clear all the streets, the current city policy makes that difficult given the particular weather this winter.
However, Johnson said another problem is the simple lack of staff to do the work.
With all the snow, the city is having problems hiring plow contract workers to assist during the plowing and snow hauling - they're all busy as well clearing snow from private areas.
The second motion of which Luhning gave notice Monday requests the city winter road maintenance manual be amended. She would like emergency plowing and snow removal following seven to 10 centimetres of snowfall, with immediate action in these instances to plow priority one and two streets.
She also wants the levels of accumulation required before plowing lowered from 10 cm to about 5-7 cm.
"When you think of 10 cm, that's quite a bit of snow."
Luhning said any increased snow removal service would certainly cost more money.
However, the city has a surplus in its snow removal budget and the councillor believes keeping local streets clear is an important service that impacts everyone and something every taxpayer deserves.
To completely plow required streets in Moose Jaw it costs between $45,000 and $50,000 after a snowfall. Residential neighbourhoods only get streets cleared if there's too much rutting.
Carter Haydu can be reached at 691-1265.
Snow problems for city
Snow problems for city
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- Published on January 14th, 2009
- Published on July 10th, 2009
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Carter Haydu
Times-Herald
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Comments
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- Cherrie
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:58:13
Those guys in ontario would have called in the army by now lol!
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- JayJay
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:54:25
According to the city we have $30 Million dollars worth of equipment. But for some reason I always see the Cypress Paving trucks working with the city.
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- Dorothy
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:52:58
Keep reaching for that rainbow Steven H!
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- Lorna
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:48:37
This was nothing more than Luhning and Swanson grandstanding, knowing full well that there was no plausible way for their motion, if passed, to be carried out. As was mentioned in the article, there is a limited amount of equipment and people to operate them. It's like standing up and demanding that we should get all 100 guys to shovel, even though there are only 15 guys and 9 shovels. As the Swanson backers always say, Swanson is a diligent councillor that takes the time to know all the minor details. So I doubt that it escaped him that this motion wasn't practical.
If Luhning and Swanson were truly concerned with the state of the roads, they would have used the time to make constructive comments or recommendations. Instead they just tried to make themselves look good to the ignorant masses.
And anyone who has watched Swanson at council over the years, knows full well he does not care about the condition of the roads. Remember, he doesn't like to spend money unnecessarily, and paying money to push something around that is going to melt in the spring anyway, is not a priority for him. He's getting smarter though, at least now he's figured out that it pays to pretend that you care. -
- Larry
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:48:03
Bugsy, you're foaming at the mouth again. Go back to the forums page.
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- Carl
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:46:54
All the complainers here are right. The City should have 50 plows, 200 trucks, 40 sanders, maybe 30 of those big snowblowers like in the picture, and about 500 workers being paid 50K a year to sit on standby year-round in case there is snow. Then we can have them work around the clock and clear every snowflake from every street and alley in 48 hours. Then we will all be happy. I don't know what that will cost in terms of equipment and labour, but from the venom being spit on here, it sounds like nobody would care.
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- Bugsy 2009
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:46:13
When I go to Regina, there seems to be as much or possibly more snow than we have. And ALL of the major streets were cleaned and sanded. In fact, every business I went to had cleaned streets. Sure, there was some center and curb piles, but nothing like this disgrace in Moose Jaw.
And any attempts by concerned councillors to have the archaic policies changed just get hammered down by the single agenda councillors. They have ZERO concern for our safety. They have no agenda other than the arena. The have perpetually demonstrated that they care nothing for our safety. They dont care about pedestrians or drivers. They spend our money on the downtown site like drunken sailors (my apologies to sailors).
I just hope and pray that some day, one of these miscreants needs my help with something, anything. I wont be able to get POUND SALT!! out of my mouth fast enough. -
- rob
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:43:31
Just after the big New Years storm the roads were just amess as everyone knows ,the odd street was getting blowed but the kicer was th pay parking and the employee lot behind city hall was getting a make over on over time sunday ,two pieces of machinery and six men with shovles were taking it down to the pavement .NOW thas a priority in moose jaw ,Dont worry about the the saty of the citizens but the rev' brought in by the meters and the unobstructed parking for employees come monday morning.What a jOKE!
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- Chuck
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:39:07
It figures that it would work out this way. No respect for the people who voted them in. And will more then likely vote them out.
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- Lionel
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:32:34
PSSSST... Look at the photo and read the sign on the dump truck...The city does not do any snow removal but love their snow piling. Don't buy the not enough staff bologna. With the old garbage collection system if they actually worked they would be done their route by 11 am and then go park somewhere. Behind the old Rodo's on the highway used to be a favorite place for them to hide...How many times do you see 6 workers to perform a task that 2 easily could.
And um hello, just because we haven't had a real winter in awhile does not mean that we won't get this amount again.
Just wait til it gets warm this weekend and melts, then snows next week. -
- Jeff
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:25:37
If they'd put plows on the sand trucks they could plow and sand at the same time. This is what they do in places that get 2 to 3 times the amount of snow but have it all cleaned up within a day or two including the sidewalks.
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- Ann
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:23:31
There are several reasons the streets in MJ are not cleared.
- there are no plows - this city's department use graters. If there were proper plows, the roads would be done much faster.
Rather than using front end loaders to slowly fill the dump trucks, most places that have snow everyyear (i.e. Canada) have the large snow eaters (sorry don't know the technical name) that fill the trucks as they drive along breaking down the banks.
- everyone needs to have their driveway entrance cleared by the grater - in cities that recieves much greater snowfall than here - the plows clear the roads, the people clear the driveways.
- in everyplace in Canada, people are not allowed to clear their sidewalks and driveways into the street. They must pile their snow on their property.
- the graters also have to work around everyone's car, trailer, truck and storage unit parked on the street,
Never would you see streets have cars parked and 'stored' on a public road during snow removal season or winter months.
Cars are not allowed to park on the streets, or be stored on the streets ALL WINTER LONG. How many vehicles in this city are snowed in, unlicensed and left for the winter?? Plenty....
Most cities and towns have no street parking at some point, evening hours, one side only, or no street parking in the winter at all.
-Main roads are cleared during the night shift when the traffic is light, not starting when the majority of the public is on the road going to or from work. Many side roads are also done during the night because there are no cars to impede the process.
There are probably several other factors that other places have to be efficient in snow removal, not just snow clearing, and I know personally that several places in snow belt areas, actually have time within 48 hours to clear sidewalks because of their efficient methods. Maybe, some of our engineering boys should take a junket to snow belt country, learn how they manage and bring the knowledge back to use here. Afterall - winter does come every year SURPRISE!!!
It's not the workers trying to clear the streets, it's a number of factors;
The wrong equipment
poor management
lousy and un-enforced bylaws
inconsiderate citizens
Let's just hope that the whole global warming thing doesn't change our snow amounts - and we actually get a 'significant' amount of snow - cause this place would just have to curl up and stop
Keep warm everybody - and stop straddling those ruts using one hand to try and steer and one to hold the cell phone (but that's another rant!!) -
- Cherrie
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:21:52
Accidents have gone up with SGI... there was 3 accidents alone on Woodlily this morning!
What a gong show!
This has got to end! -
- J
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:20:09
I can't believe someone is still, throwing blame at swanson and luhning.
Talk about paranoid propaganda.
Yes Swanson and Luhning are in collusion with the weather to stop the mutliplex. Buhahaha!
This is a simple matter of priorities. -
- Get it built
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:18:48
I watched an empty street plowed last night, and it took one mahcine with one guy about 45 minutes to do about 200 metres. We have 150km of roads, you do the math of how long it takes the city to plow out the extire city AND haul away the snow.
I for one hope the short-staffed city workers get some nice overtime cheques for their hard work. Yes, hard work, they can't work miracles. Thank you for your work city roads department. -
- Jim
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:10:05
The city streets of Moose Jaw are a safety hazard and the city officials should be ashamed of themselves. Think about it! Getting to the hospital, work or any school in the city of Moose Jaw is a challenge but getting to Tim Horton is no problem once you can get to Main Street. Whats wrong with that Picture? I will remember this at the next election.
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- Sick of the Snow
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:09:57
Get it Built... I am thinking that you work for the City... or you don't drive... Either way... get real! Have you SEEN the streets around here?
I agree completely with Jeff Albertson. I used to live in Yorkton (also a town of approx 18000) . Their City workers worked through the night. They had day shifts...evening shifts... and night shifts. ALL of the streets were CLEARED of the snow (not just shoved to the side) in a couple days. This is pathetic. I can't believe how nothing is being done. The City of Moose Jaw should be ashamed. -
- Clifford
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:09:26
Common Sense and City Council - Four Words That Do Not Go Together!
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- Jamaal
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:04:41
Carl A...
Way to blow things out of proportion. We do need more equipment and manpower to get the job done in a timely manner, but what we're asking for, is not as drastic as your hyperbolized view of our stances would suggest. There have been many suggestions as to how this could be done, and many examples of other places doing it.
If Toronto, with a population 100 times that of our own as well as way more roads, can manage to keep their streets clean, then there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to here. We could create seasonal jobs in this area, and employ summer workers who might otherwise be laid off for the winter.
Realistically, we could put $1200 snow plows on the pick-up trucks that the city has, as well as snow blower or snow plow attachments on the ride-on mowers too for nicer days. I also agree with putting plows and/or snowblower attachments on the sand trucks. That alone, would make things noticeably better.
geo...
Unfortunately, everything does come back to the multiplex issue with this group of councillors. They are quick to dismiss a potential solution to snow removal and a crack seal program for the streets, as well as other upgrades and maintenance to infrastructure, but quick to vote in favor of anything concerning that project and its intended downtown location.
If they'd take care of the basics at least simultaneously, if not first, then there would likely be less disgust all around. However, they continuously act on impulse without thinking anything over, and therein lies the issue that many of us have with them.
More people than you think, are irritated with the snow removal policy in this town, and that should be reason enough to look at making it more efficient. I've seen some neighborhood streets ploughed, but they still haven't cleared Athabasca from 2nd NE to 2nd NW.
This is in the downtown of our city, right near the spa. There is highway access and an exit to downtown to the East of this area. As soon as you get off of the expressway, you realize where the Dept. of Highways isn't responsible for snow removal.
The highway to and from Regina is nearly flawless after all of the snow, and even during the storm, it was pretty good driving. That's a combined 160 km of road that they manage to clear down to pavement in less than 24 hours.
I just hope we get this mess cleaned up before the forecasted warm front is supposed to hit. Thawing and refreezing will make these streets into death traps. -
- Jeff
- - September 18th, 2009 at 17:02:04
Actually they would slow down when they were going around cars raise the plow slightly to lessen the snow around cars parked on the streets. We did have to shovel the bottom of the driveway once a day when the plow went by but we didnt have to do the sidewalks as they were done with a machine after the streets were plowed.If you park on the street like I do you have to expect to do a little shoveling if it means not doing damage to your car while driving through a rut filled intersection it's worth it .Its not an Eastern thing it's an effficient way of removing snow. I'm sure the workers are working hard, they just don't have the equipment or the plan in correct place to deal with snow like this.
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- Jess
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:56:11
If they'd put plows on the sand trucks they could plow and sand at the same time. This is what they do in places that get 2 to 3 times the amount of snow but have it all cleaned up within a day or two including the sidewalks.
It's harder then it sounds, seeing as how you want a good plow thats not going to break down, thats electronics u need too add, and possibly hydrolics, not to mention on how many trucks? But wait... this money takes away from the stupid multiplex... -
- nosaint
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:49:42
They don't plow in the winter and they don't pave in the summer....I'm already use to year round crappy roads.
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- tanya
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:47:34
why do we pay tax dollars-i am grateful that 11th ave nw was graded but the idiot who was doing it did not leave a spot for a vechile to park.
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- Daniel
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:37:25
Yo Steve, we're talking about snow here man. Not the multiplex. Stay on topic. It's not always about the multiplex. If you want to talk about the multiplex and nothing else, go over to the forums. You want me to vote NO? If we're talking about snow, then sure, I'll vote NO. Everyone else too I imagine.
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- Edwin
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:26:25
I'll admit this right away, I'm no fan of Swanson. And I don't mind the idea of a multiplex and building it downtown. But on my worst day I would not refer to Swanson or anyone else as a MISCREANT the way that Bugsy, Swanson & Luhning's #1 fan, did when he referred to the other councillors. I guess Bugsy is an expert on everything but CLASS.
I would say his comments speak volumes about the anti-multiplexers. Disagreement is human. Hate is just plain ugly. -
- Ken
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:24:25
The City trucks drive around all day throwing sand on top of inches of snow, how ridiculous is that? If the streets were plowed first, then maybe the sand would help with traction. Come on, it's not rocket science!! Maybe some City workers should go to the Eastern provinces where 70 cm in 2 days happens all the time to learn how they deal with it. There are many many cities in other provinces that are smaller than Moose Jaw and they manage to plow and clear ALL the streets just fine. Heck, the trucks ran all night when it snowed and sometimes they did each residential street more than twice before 7am. They have the exact same trucks that throw sand. The only difference is that there's a plow in front. I can't believe their policy gives them 3 days to do the highest priority streets and then 4 days for the 2nd highest priority and most residential streets never get done all winter. Come on!! There is no reason for that. If it's cleared while it's fresh, it saves tons of time, sand and trouble later after cars have driven over it a million times. Who cares if the plow leaves snow in your driveway if that's all you have to do to get to cleared streets. The City is definately negligent. Maybe lawsuits for accidents and vehicle damage might speak to them. In my opinion, the City is definately negligent and has not met due diligence when it comes to safely getting around.
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- Bugsy 2009
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:19:55
You're too funny, Edwin H.! Clearly, you don't even have a sniff at what it means. Take a walk on the wild side and break out a dictionary, Eddie. E d u c a t i o n; it can be fun!
And so we are clear, I don't hate them, but those five super-plexers do DISGUST me. -
- Dusty
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:19:10
Why don't we just hand the fab five each a shovel and tell them to get er done!
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- Bugsy
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:15:39
Wow, I used to be such an idiot.
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- Sick of the Snow
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:15:16
IM... it IS possible to plow the streets without burying cars and driveways... they do it in other towns and Cities. I have seen it done. Maybe they should look to other places for help in how to properly remove the snow. Cause they don't have a clue. It is such a disaster.
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- p
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:14:18
we cant even get clean streets, and the fab 5 want to trow mills at multi plex lol.city workers do what there told, and council dictates that time for change
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- geo
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:06:30
I agree almost every article that comes out on any city subject the Multiplex gets thrown in !! hopeless!!!!what a joke!!!
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- Steven H.
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:03:59
Hello Lorna....What type of twisted logic are you advancing? Telling us Swanson's and Luhning's motion intention was to only embarrass council. You are spreading Hooey and truckloads of it! All Dawn wanted was a chance to discuss and URGENT safety issue. You twisted that into a nefarious motion with ill intent. Blaming Swanson doesn't work anymore Lorna, and your vehement insinuation that Swanson is devious and underhanded is laughable. Perhaps you should set your gaze towards Mr. Chow Q.C and ask that learned man why getting hard liquor sold at Warrior's games? ,... trumps citizens safety on our roads and good old winter common sense?
Your finger pointing only turns the spotlight on you and it says a great deal more about you and the proplex crowd than you originally intended. Swanson is not responsible for the conditions of our roads....the majority of five on council is, but they are Snow Blind! Blinded by their own petty vindictive proplex stance. Vote NO! -
- pjay
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:02:20
Just got back from Regina and guess what whiners?? They have pretty big ruts in thier streets as well and 2 lane streets with piles of snow in one half of the other lane to narrow it down. A colleague of mine in saskatoon informs me they are the same way. You think Moose Jaw is the only ones? Dream on...the volume of snow factored with the cold is creating this in every Saskatchewan city. Hey Ken...tell those ontario guys to cmon out here and clean with a minus 45 windchill...nothing would get done!
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- geo
- - September 18th, 2009 at 16:01:57
All I know is don't take your eyes off the ruts for one second and go slow because a rut threw me right out of my lane this AM and I'm thankful there was no car there or pedestrian!!!
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- I
- - September 18th, 2009 at 15:55:42
Yes Jeff, they plowed the streets, they didn't remove it, they didn't worry about burying your driveway. if your car was on the streets, too bad, your digging it out. The problem here is everyone wants the full meal deal, and the city (erroneously) is trying to make it perfect. This is why it takes forever to do the few main arteries they can. You can't plow any of the side streets here with all the cars parked on them, both sides. I'd love to see them plow eastern style out here. Then all the whiners would be crying about being late to work cause their car is under a plow pile!
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- Jeff
- - September 18th, 2009 at 15:53:57
It shouldnt take 45 minutes to do 200 metres. My father plowed snow in New Brunswick for 30 years. Snow falls of 25+cm happen multiple times per month.With 5 sand/salt trucks they plowed ALL of the streets for a town of 18000 in less than two days.
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- Steven H
- - September 18th, 2009 at 15:51:15
Dora: Context darling, you're quoting out of context. Typical proplexer, lie by ommission...lessons you obviously learned from Boughen, Thorn and Beesley. Are you a sage or an understudy of The Lie, Deny, Sneak, Backroom Builly School and when caught.....just Blame Swanson! Sad diploma to own.
