Firefighters deal finalized

Us

- September 18th, 2009 at 18:02:29

This is shameful at a time when the economy is in such a state. What other job provides the perks of a fireman where they work three days followed by four off. What other shift worker gets to watch tv, cook meals and sleep at night, and guess what......the bedrooms and beds etc. are even provided for them.

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Us

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:57:58

gsp are you saying they do not have bedrooms and beds provided and do not sleep at night while on duty??????

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Jeff

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:56:46

I have to agree with the earlier comments. We should privatize this essential sevice or have volunteers. That way if the company doesn't think it's economically feasible to save your house or your family they can go up in flames.Companies are so good at judging what is good for people (like the HMO's in the US who let people die because of high cost of treatments)


I'd also much rather have a volunteer who just got off a shift at Burger King or was drinking at the legion come and rescue me from my house rather than someone who has fulltime experience.


Keep up the backward thinking Moose Jaw!! Then we can party like it's 1959!!

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observer

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:53:12

Too rich is right. It`s high time Moose Jaw considered passing this service on to the private sector.

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gsp

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:49:32

3 days? More lies. Last time I checked Saskatchewan was doing great and they were starting to pay their workers closer to what other provinces were making.

Also what other workers have to do C.P.R on adults and god forbid babies and children. Risk their lives to help others at many different situations. Or how about some of those gruesome car accidents and other emergencies they attend that would make most people sick. Ya that sounds real nice doesn't it.

Us,
you don't know what you are talking about!

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Willy

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:46:05

Hey Brian.....When you were a school teacher.....did you think you should be paid the same as teachers in Saskatoon, Regina, or P.A.? Or were you trying to save the education system by taking a 20% decrease. What about your wife in the health care system. Is she grandstanding for less pay than her equals? The shoe seems to be on the other foot now doesn't it.

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Warren

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:43:33

The fire department saved an apartment building on the 400 block of Athabasca while a vacant building three feet away went up in flames.The residents were very grateful for the jib they did. I'm just saying if your job is dangerous with a cancer rate 2-3 times a normal person. You deserve to make a lot more than a normal government job.

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MJ Citizen

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:43:07

They have fighting morons?????

Oh my God we have a railyard in Moose Jaw so we need to pay the firefighters more....!!! who knew?

How stupid can you be...in one breath you say we have a railyard with hazardous materials (implying it's more dangerous for firefighters) yet go on to say that firefighting has nothing to do with being dangerous...help us out here...explain why.

Ok take your toys with you and go play somewhere else....the truth hurts and you don't like the truth.

bye bye

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concerned taxpayer

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:36:46

DTA from MJ, negative comments are no more unfair then your fear mongering comment.
As for deserving a decent wage, well they have been getting a decent wage long before this huge increase, not to mention all the perks that go along with the job.
As for Warren M`s comment on cancer rate, that is a thing of the past with their personal breathing devices they wear now a days.

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gsp

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:35:16

Ok one more. You need to learn how to read. Where did I say firefighting wasn't dangerous. Are you that stupid? I was refering to size of the building. But I am sure you know all about firefighting don't you. And yes having a rail yard in the middle of the city that transports that much dangerous goods through is one of many reasons our firefighters are so well trained, and do deserve to be payed at least close to what other departments get.

Hey, have a nice life and keep being miserable. Whiner!!!

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Clifford

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:33:37

Dale hats off. You have yourself and the firemen doing the bird dance now. People wonder how you can do this and not raise taxes and I chalk it up to great leadership! DALE THIS IS YOUR DAY TO DANCE!

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Happy

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:29:58

I think we need to have a composite department. Instead of 10 FF's on all the time, why not 6 with the availabity of 10-15 volunteers with pagers. Though the present department would likely be greatly opposed to this, the service they provide does not in my opinion warrant an over 50 person full time department. 30... sure, plus 30-40 volunteers who gets paid for their time at work.

We'd save a ton, and the service level difference would be hardly noticable.

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MJ Citizen

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:24:55

No raises in taxes in 8 years?? Where have you been living Joe?
Everyone should be considered for a salary increase at the cost of living rate every year. That would be the fairest system in the world. Seems to me the Consumer Price Index was about 2%, a far cry from the increase we have seen in this case.
It all boils down to how much we all are prepared to pay...we could have 0% tax increases every year if we deteriorate services and borrow money and simply make payments on the interest vs the principal.
In reality is should be a balancing act.
In this case we are going to get the same service from FireFighters, we are just going to pay them more. Actually we are even going to pay them more for the service we got last year. Essentially were are going to get the same old 8 year old service that Joe says we should not be getting. Joe guess what, we will be getting the same thing at a higher cost.
As for attracting people, I would say that there is no shortage of FireFighters. Even if there were I am sure some of the unemployed MeatCutters may be interested or if nothing else wait til we get to the point where this is a problem...We will be waiting a long time.
Where else can you work 3 days a week, get 4 days off, have 1 or 2 side businesses and be able to sit around most of the day at work planning your other ventures?
I respect what the FireFighters do, but I think they should realize they have a pretty darn good job in Moose Jaw.

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gsp

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:12:19

I am not Garth Palmer, GSP is a fighter moron. Almost 50% of the dept. payed for own training. Moose Jaw has alot taller buildings than 3 stories but if you knew anything about firefighting at all you would know that has nothing to do with how dangerous the job is. Don't forget the rail yard that runs through the middle of the city carrying tons of hazardous materials.I will always support Nurses, Police officers, EMS People, Teachers, trades people, etc. etc. in that they should be paid the same every where for doing the same job (at least in the same province) You think the living expenses are higher half an hour down the road in Regina. There not, except maybe gas going to and from work. You just have a problem with firefighters. So I am not going to argue with you anymore. You obviously know it all, despite the several false statements you have made. Respond all you want as I will not be reading because I don't care what you say Mr. Swanson!

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CKS

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:08:23

If you think holding the line will save money you are completely wrong. These are professional jobs. You dont pick them from trees on a yearly basis at the cost of nothing. They dont sprount up like weeds. They do however cost alot to train. So if you want to pay them a non competitve wage in their field, they will leave to a competitive wage elsewhere. You will then ahve to pay for the next persons training, and the next and the next because you cannot retain anyone!!!!!!

If you keep the increases on par with other deparments yearly then its not a 17 percent raise but rather 2 or 3 yearly. Spread it out, think to the future not just today and tommorrow.

It will cost the city more to continually train individuals to fill in for those that depart to the more progressive and better paying departments, than it would to paying the proper wage increases.

As always someone it whining about someone making more then the average worker. It all comes 2% of the population being able to do these jobs. Not just anyone off the street. They deserve the competitive wage. This does not put them out of line with other departments it puts them in line!!! Moose Jaw is not some special discount rate town where everything comes cheap. Pay them or lose them. We clearly want to keep them and we will pay them what they deserve.

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Joe

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:05:44

Somebody please explain to Mr Swanson two things. First, its one thing to try to hold the line on taxes. But to hold the line for 8 yrs means we have maintained an eight-year-old level of service. There is no progress, room for inflation, adapting to change- nothing. Secondly, if you want to attarct and retain quality people in your most important positions, we have to stay competitive and progressive. Find the balance Brian!!! Nothing is ever black and white.

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gsp

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:04:15

Your lying about the shifts!

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concerned taxpayer

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:03:13

Hey MJ Citizen, they haven`t got a pretty darn good job, they have the best job going. Yet they and there families will use scare mongering and fear tactics to justify their exuberant wage packages. Comments like who will save you when your house catches fire! What gets me, is this is mostly a volunteer service in the rural areas of the province, including some rather large communities.

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Yes

- September 18th, 2009 at 17:03:11

Mj citizen or Brian Swanson you are very wrong. these firefighters work very hard for the money they get! They put their lives in danger to save someone else. I think they deserve everything they get and more! How can you be so selfish worrying about your tax increase when they need to worry about their lives everytime they are called to a fire. Im a daughter of a firefighter and yeah they get 4 days off but they deserve it for what they do. Think before you type Swanson! Think about other than yourself! Gsp keep up the good work!

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MJ Citizen

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:59:21

Jeff..I have news for you..when is the last time the MJ Fire Dept. saved a house?
Seriously though..I highly disbelieve that the FireFighters were fighting for a raise because they were concerned about how economically feasible it is to save a house. It would actually be contrary because the more we pay them individually the less of them we can afford. Would they not be worried that if they get a 20% raise then we could lay off 20% of the Firefighters?
As it stands right now there is a good chance that some of our FireFighters are coming from managing their Sports Shop, Dog Kennel, Restaurant, Home Renovation Business...the list goes on and on.
I am not for contracting this service out myself. I just think that they have a pretty good job in a pretty good place. They have flexible working hours and many of them have the opportunity to have other business interests because of their hours of work.


Perhaps you think this is backword thinking, but I would say that anyone who thinks we should write them a blank cheque is stuck in 1959.

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MJ Citizen

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:57:41

I have a good idea, lets just pay them whatever they want...write them a blank cheque..
Wow these people are all superman/superwoman dressed in firefighter clothes. even better...they are all Gods...sent from the heavens to save the world.
This is Moose Jaw people...not Vancouver, Toronto or New York where these Firefighters are exposed to higher risks, skyscrapers and milions and millions of people. We all seem to forget that.
I won't forget one thing...New Years Day when they responded to the Fire on River and Main...twice. The first time early in the morning when they supposedly put it out the first time and the second time when they had to come back...and they lost the whole block. Looks like these Super Heroes screwed up on that one.
Best kept secret in Moose Jaw.

No worries....they are all just human after all...except when it comes to being paid...then they want to be looked at like Gods.

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MJ Citizen

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:51:14

Well it was nice to see one good thing come of this story and comments;
The Moose Jaw Fire Chief is computer literate. I mean who the heck else could gsp be but Garth Palmer?

As for the New Years Day fire...like I said, it is best kept secret in MJ. If you don't like the comment..... prove it otherwise. When was the last fire inspection done before the fire? Why wasn't the building brought up to code when it was renovated from the Vacuum Store to the Ice Cream Parlour/Restaurant? A blind eye was turned on the whole thing. Then a 630am fire call for smoke in the building turns into a 1030am all out fire response.

As for Firefighters paying $20,000 for training...big deal. Compare it to University costs for Nurses and Engineers or Post Secondary costs for Plumbers, Carpenters and Electricians. Yet lots of these FireFighters get paid as much or more than these people. Oh and how many on the current MJ Dept took that training BEFORE they were hired? I bet not even 25% of them.

So are you trying to tell us that being a FireFighter in Vancouver and being expected to enter a 30 story building on building is the SAME as entering a 3 story building on fire in Moose Jaw? Your argument in this regard is so weak that I will not even get into the drastic difference in things like the cost of living and the lifestyle in the large Cities compared to MJ.

Sorry I am not a Communist...I am just a mere Realist who can see that the MJ FireFighters got a great deal.

Don't take me wrong, I appreciate the work that they do. Also don't think that I am an idiot because I also know that there are a lot of worse jobs out there in worse places for less money.

And lastly...how can I miss your comments about negativity. The latest and greatest saying in Moose Jaw when someone doesn't agree to bend over and take one.
Yeah, that's it...I have a negative attitude because I think everyone deserves to be treated fairly.

Nice try Garth...nice try.

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Willy

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:38:20

Hey MJ citizen from Sask. Maybe the city is hiring the wrong kind of firefighters. You seem to think they are progressive, hardworkers, trying to keep the economy going by borrowing money for ventures, hiring people, and investing in the city they live.....and you have a problem with that. Maybe the city should start hiring slugs who hang out at the coffee shops and do nothing on their down time or spend their time griping on the computer like you. Now that would be progressive. And as for the police, maybe Brian should try and hire Marshall Matt Dillon and deputize Festus. That would save us a ton too. Wake up and be happy with your city.

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J

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:29:22

Regarding wages for Police and Firefighters...why are we always following some sort of Leader such as one similiar sized city or other? Sometime soon Moose Jaw must learn to stand up on it's own two feet and just say NO...This is the Wage Settlement we can afford and if you want more go elsewhere or take a staff cut. The pot only has so much money in it folks and if we keep feeding certain segments of our Civic Workforce huge raises then we will have to either further cut services and maintennence of our infrastructure, or tax the people at such a high rate we will lose our taxpayers to other centers. The amount of the 18% raise is more than some people make in 6 months of hard work...and the Firefighters are getting that much ON TOP of their salaries!! Firefighting is a dangerous job for sure, but many Towns and Cities in this Country survive quite well with Volunteer Services at a fraction of the cost. Most fires result in a total write-off anyway or involve garbage bins etc...something that happens with both Volunteer and Paid Services so we are not getting anything better than other places. Paying one or two segments of the Civic Service group more in raises than some people make in six months is just not right. If people want Moose Jaw to be so progressive with all the expensive Services and Facilities, then we have to be just as progressive in controlling skyrocketing wage settlements or the next demands will be from the City Employees for a 18% raise to not remove snow or fix our water lines or streets. The cost of living is going down not up so we must govern ourselves accordingly. More money leads to more wants which leads to more debt which leads to more wants...it is an upward spiral we cannot afford. Pass legislation that the Fire/Police/Civic Departments gets a cost of living raise and that is all. If they feel that they need more money to buy a new boat or a new business do what the rest of us do...save up, cut personel expenses and be happy they make as much as they do. Pork Plant, Raider and XL Beef workers would be glad to be paid half of what the Fire Dept. makes and have a job to go to.

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DTA

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:17:48

Negative comments on this issue are really unfair!These people put their lives on the line for us,and contribute to the community.It basically comes down to the fact what would u do if your house was burning down? The emergency services have been put thru extensive training,so why do they not deserve a decent wage?Moose Jaw is moving forward,so get your pocket book out and deal with it!We are not living in the 80s anymore.

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gsp

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:15:11

MJ Citizen,
You obviously have some personal isues with firefighters that have led you to spew some of this garbage. I think you better check your facts about the new years day fire because you are way off, and just down right lying now.

Hers is a couple things for you to remember meathead;

Firefighters do the same job everywhere doesn't matter the population. Right now in Nice areas of Vancouver, Toronto, Saskatoon etc. there are firefighters working that probably haven't seen a fire for a couple of years because of the hall they work at you moron.

Have you seen how much Nurses, cp railers and several trades people make these days. It isn't 1950 anymore.

Alberta and Saskatchewan have the highest job requirements to get hired in Canada so you have some of the best trained Firefighters in the country watching out for you.

I am sure meat cutters are welcome to Apply for a job here but first they will have to apply to a fire college for a couple of years like I have been and pay there $20,000 for training to meet the requirments of these departments such as Primary care paramedic, Hazardous materials training ,etc,etc. Once they have jumped through all the hoops meant to weed out idiots like yourself they can apply too. Yes our firefighters do much more than just fight fires.

Or they could do it like Ontario and many other provinces and hire with no training and then the tax payers can pay for it. That would be wonderful wouldn't it loser!

Hey doesn't the nato base pay almost a million dollars a year to the city for fire protection witch requires the level off staffing they have. I don't think volunteers would be an option. So think or at least research before you run your mouth.

Your comments are dissapointing to say the least but I would bet you have dissapointed alot of people in your life. I can just tell.

Communism is out man! Embrace it. Get off your couch and go out and do something. While you sit around all day and gripe about how much everybody else makes there are all kinds of people out there accomplishing goals and getting that job they always dreamed of. You can do it but you just need to change your really, really negative attitude that has held you back all these years!

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Kim

- September 18th, 2009 at 16:12:49

Very well put cks!
Mj citizen:When you are in a car accident the firefighters 1st priority is not to save your car or possessions, They are trained professionals who extricate you from the wreckage safely, Similarly most house fires there 1st priority would be life safety or search rescue, possessions are replaceable .It would be pretty hard to justify reducing the level of trained personnel for a very small tax savings. As for Brians comments, you cannot say that Moose Jaw Firefighters are worth less then Firefighters in other similar size communities. Do people complain that teachers and nurses are all paid the same regardless of the size of the city they work for?
The Truth is that professional nurses, teachers, firefighters, police, ect. that work in smaller centres actually work harder in more demanding and dangerous positions then there counterparts. How quickly Mr. Swanson forgets that he was once a teacher, I do not recall him ever complaining about the portion of the property taxes that funds the school board was Too rich for the City of Moose Jaw !

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DP

- September 18th, 2009 at 15:41:09

Quit complaining about how much other people earn, and complain about how little you earn. The reason they got such a huge bump in both this round, and the last round is that they have been underpaid for years. Judging by all the whining, you have also been underpaid for years.
Congratulations on reaching an agreement WITHOUT going to arbitration.

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